Foreigners Living in Mexico

Owning Property

A Fideicomiso (trust) is required to own property near the beach. Foreigners cannot hold property near the Mexican coast in their name. To handle this problem, the major banks provide a trust service for which the buyer pays an initial fee of about US$2,000 to $4,000 and annual fees of $150 to $500, depending on the price of the property and upon the bank. These are very rough estimates; the fees change all the time. The bank then holds the deed in trust for a specified time. This can be renewed or terminated for a fee.

The banks examine the legal paperwork very carefully, hence the usual Acta de Posesión that most of the natives have (the unregistered document issued by a local elected commission) is not acceptable to the bank. Nor is the somewhat more formal Escritura Privada where the property has at least been registered with a county judge. Only the Escritura Publica, a grand document researched and written by a Notaria Publica, is acceptable. Only with the Escritura Publica are you sure that you have a free and clear title. Since there are many stories of land being sold multiple times, in my opinion the Escritura Publica, held by the bank in a Fideicomiso, is well worth the money. More about this.

See also Buying Property in the Federal Zone

The Purchase Agreement

A purchase agreement (contrato privado de promesa de compraventa) is typically a boilerplate two-page document prepared by a lawyer or a notary. It states the seller's and the buyer's name, address, age, marital status and other particulars. It also states the exact size and location of the property as it appears on the deed.

The agreement must show the amount actually to be paid including the down payment which is paid at the signing of the agreement. For tax purposes - or to avoid paying more taxes than necessary - the seller may request that the declared purchase price be less than the actual purchase price. (The capital gains tax is 15%; 28% for foreigners.) In this case, both amounts must appear in the purchase agreement. (If the purchase agreement is written by a notary and the declared price is not the purchase price, be sure to request that the document not be notarized, i.e. entered into the public record.)

The date of initiation of closing must also be declared. My purchase agreement allowed for three weeks to lapse before the title transfer process would be initiated with a notary. This was the amount of time that the seller would need to get a certificate of non-encumbrance (certificado de no gravamen) from the deed office and that the buyer might need to get his papers in order. If the sale does not go through because the seller does not present the paper work to the notary by the agreed upon date, he must return the deposit to you.

Remember: an oral agreement is as good as the paper it's written on.

Barbara Joan Schaffer
http://www.barbaraschaffer.com/
10/15/07

Visas

An FMM (tourist visa) is visa that allows a tourist to stay in Mexico for up to 180 days. There is a 332-peso fee (2017). The visa may now be obtained online at https://www.inm.gob.mx/fmme/publico/solicitud.html. The visitor has 30 days to cross the border and activate the visa which is good for 180 days.

Many people living in Mexico still use their 6-month tourist visas, driving to the border to renew twice a year. However, now immigration at the border is not automatically stamping the visa for 6 months. Most frequently it will be for a month or two or even just a few weeks, causing much time to be spent in the local immigration office trying to get extensions. Proof of income is required for renewal.

An FM3 (permanent residence visa) allows the person to bring in household items and to keep a car with foreign plates without having to drive back to the border every 6 months. There are different types of FM3s. Some give permission to work for specific companies, others to work at specific professions or businesses. These can be very difficult to get. Usually people apply for the FM3 Rentista which is for retired people. It is the easiest to get. If possible, it is better to apply for it at a big Mexican Consulate in the person's home country. It is much faster and easier. Be patient with the paperwork; this is Mexico. You'll get used to it after awhile. It is difficult to be explicit about the details because they change depending upon who is in charge at the immigration office that day, and the laws change frequently as well.

An FM2 (temporary residence visa), which also comes in different varieties like the FM3, allows the person to apply for Mexican citizenship after about 5 years. It is hard to get here without holding an FM3 for 3 to 5 years first. However I know of at least 2 people who hired Mexico City lawyers to get FM2s before entering Mexico. After receiving the Mexican citizenship (you don't lose US or Canadian citizenship) one can work without permission. Only the right to vote is withheld.

Proof of income (or money in your pocket) is required for the FM-2 or FM-3. Some people have had to xerox all their travelers cheques! The amounts vary. Several years ago the FM2 and FM3 requirements, were about US$1,800 and US$1,000 per month respectively for the head of household and one-half that for each dependent. The requirements increase every year. However, if you bring your Escritura Publica or Fideicomiso and a copy, these amounts are cut by one-half. The easiest thing to do is to call migración at the Puerto Escondido or at the Huatulco Airport, and ask what the requirements are. (Only Spanish is spoken unless the Delegado, who often speaks English, is in.)

When you know the required amount for 1 month, go to the local Banca Bital (now called HSBC) or Banamex (Bital is more accommodating and their people usually speak a little English) and buy an Inversión for 1 month in this amount. Take this document and a copy with you to migración. When the Inversión (a CD) matures, you can cash it. You only need to buy it again when you renew your FM the following year. This was working; I can't promise for the future. In the past people brought bank statements or certified letters from their bank, but now the office is saying that they want people who have the FM3 or FM2 to demonstrate pesos.

Other Documents You Should Have

• 2 copies of every page of your passport - even the blank ones! And the original.
• Your current visa and a copy
• Your escritura or fideicomiso and copy, demonstrating home ownership, if applicable.
• A personal letter and copy in Spanish asking for the FM2 or FM3. Include the address where you are living in Mexico and the number and description of your entry visa.
• Passport photos: 2 profile, 2 full face
• Proof of income   Bank statement or something that shows that you have the required funds. (Check with Immigration for acceptable documents and the current amounts required.)

  This changes frequently.   They now may only accept proof of an inversion (kind of a CD in pesos) at a Mexican bank. (HSBC is the best.) A regular bank account in pesos for the same amount is O.K., too, but you don't receive interest and there are very hefty fees, generally. Extending a tourist visa may not require holding pesos; you may get by with travelers checks.

• The form, Solicitud de Trámita Migratorio, and copy. Ask for and fill these out when you first arrive at migración.
• FM1 form   Fill this out at migración also, but unless your Spanish is terrific, you may want to copy the form and work out your answers in advance.
• The form, Declaracion General De Pago De Derechos, and a copy. Buy several of these at a stationary store (the one across from the post office in Pto. Escondido is good.). If you make a mistake, you have to throw the form away and start over. Fill this out in duplicate, and take it to the bank to pay the fee before the final trip to Migración. Take extra blank forms with you to the bank as well, in case the bank wants to change something
• Bring a dictionary unless your Spanish is very fluent.
• Birth certificate and marriage license may not be required, but bring just in case.
For your car, (Customs, not Migración)
• Bring your registration and bill of sale. You will need this when you renew your permit - You can now do that by letter to Oaxaca. In Oaxaca, in Spanish call Lic. Maria Lourdes Cruz Robles, (951) 60108 or 66790 or Lic. Jose Guadalupe Mesta Guera (951) 60701 or 68853 or Lic. Jose Guadalupe Mesta Guerra (951) 60701 or 68853. They will tell you what to say in your letter and what papers to include.

  In your letter you will probably need to include copies of your entry visa and your new visa, if any, your passport, Asunto: Importación Temporal, and Certificate of Title (Certificado de Titulo).

  Address:

  Administración Local Juridica de Ingresos Lic. Jose Guadalupe Mesta Guerra Armenta y Lopez No. 208, Centro Oaxaca, Oaxaca

  You may also need these papers for the border crossing as well. Be sure you have a credit card for getting your car across the border. You will also need insurance that is valid in Mexico.

Resources, in the unlikely event that you have a problem:

US Consul Mark Lease, Oaxaca: 01 951-43054. M-F 9:00 - 2:00PM
Embassy, Mexico DF: 01 5-21100-42

Immigrating to Mexico

Many foreigners want to come to Mexico for periods longer than those permitted under the typical tourist visa. For those who are interested in spending more than three months in Mexico year after year, it's wise to get an FM-3 visa which will permit one to enter Mexico with household goods and carries with it permission to stay for the one year after which the visa is issued. The FM-3 visa can be obtained from a Mexican consulate or embassy in foreign countries. Although the FM-3 can also be gotten in Mexico, it is many times easier to get it in one's own country. Each year the visa must be renewed. Again, that can be accomplished outside Mexico. An applicant must be prepared to show copies of his/her birth certificate, a bank statement and present a letter stating that he or she is in good standing legally in his or her home city or county. There is a fee which increases slightly each year. In 1992, it was $60 USD, but undoubtedly is higher now. A call to the nearest Mexican consulate (in many major cities) or embassy will yield all the document and financial requirements.

After four renewals of the FM-3 visa, most foreigners, especially those who live in Mexico, get an FM-2 visa which can only be done in Mexico. As a resident of Puerto Escondido, that meant a trip to Huatulco annually. Now, the immigration service is sending an agent periodically to Puerto to process the renewals. There are forms to be filled out, a fee to be paid and copies of bank statements, properties, passports to be made. The actual processing is free, although for many years in the Huatulco office there were routine, illegal demands for fees.

After four renewals of the FM-2, a foreigner may apply for immigrant status. Being an immigrant confers "all the rights and responsibilities of a Mexican" MINUS the right to vote and the right to own property close to the coast or the border. Having arrived at that level, the only practical difference I notice is that I don't have to go through the annual visa renewal process which saves me money and, more importantly, a lot of grief. The FM-3 can be accomplished easily. The FM-2 may require the services of an immigration lawyer, especially if the foreigner isn't fluent in Spanish. I used a lawyer for both the FM-2 and the immigrant status steps, although I'm fluent in Spanish, because of the tremendous amount of paperwork. Living in Puerto Escondido would have required various trips to Oaxaca or Mexico City, and it was worth it to me to pay an expert to get it done correctly and in a timely fashion.

The last step is to become a Mexican citizen. For those who wish to become Mexican citizens, there is an application process and, of course, an exam as is required in most countries. According to a U.S. embassy official, dual citizenship may be a reality within as short a time as two years. He emphasized that a U.S. citizen who becomes a Mexican citizen will not, under any normal circumstance, lose his or her American citizenship--even if the Mexican government requires that the U.S. citizen relinquish his or her passport. A new U.S. passport will be issued immediately.

Under the FM-2 and FM-3 visas, a foreigner may keep his or her car in Mexico. The car's permission runs with the period of the visa extension. After renewing his or her visa annually, the foreigner must write a "solicitud " (a letter of application in Spanish) asking permission to keep the car another year in Mexico, make copies of the renewed visa and copies of the car's title and entry papers and send all that off to a state office of Hacienda (the tax revenue service). They review the application and send the car owner an official letter which must be carried at all times in the car. By means of that "oficio", the car is legally sanctioned for another year in Mexico. A word of warning: When one reaches the status of "immigrant", it's no longer possible to keep a foreign car in Mexico. No one mentioned that to me, and I was surprised and dismayed to learn that I'd have to drive my '93 Quest back to the States, sell it, and return to Mexico to buy a car here.

I've just bought a car here, Tom. I haven't had to license it just yet, a process I understand to be exorbitant and subject to "requests" for extra fees. The licensing procedure may warrant another note to you.

Sheila Clarke
Twin Cottages
Puerto Escondido
palomaspto@yahoo.com
July 2000

Children Born in Mexico

Have you had a birth in the family and registered your certificate here in Puerto Escondido?

People who are trying to obtain the CURP (similar to social security number in the U.S.) for their children are unable ... Why? The local office in charge of registering these certificates with the state report they HAVE NOT done so for at least three years. As a result of this your child only exists as a Mexican citizen inside a cardboard box in a office in the town center or a disc in a computer HERE in Puerto Escondido. IF you try to obtain a visa or any other legal right for your child... leave the country.. you cannot. I would like to know others in this situation, check to find out your childs CURP online. If you discover that your child also has never been registered contact this number 01 800 911 1111 these people will help you get the situation resolved.

I would like to know if this is happening to extranjero births or all Mexican Nationals as well. The D.F. representative states this is a very problematic situation that needs to be looked into. What are they doing with your child's information for this many years?????????????? People are recommended not to attempt to register in this state as it would take 5-7 months or more if you initiated the process personally with the state. D.F. states Oaxaca is a non-operating state which is incapable of operating normal procedures expected bureaucratically. Contact the above number.

"Info"
from the Visitors' Comments, June 28, 2007

In Puerto Escondido, Oaxaca

Migración is at Puerto Escondido Airport and at the Huatulco airport. You can telephone to ask what documents are necessary; but they really prefer that you come in, however, sometimes you can luck out and get what you need over the phone.

Possibly internationally you could fax a question or whatever and say that you will be calling at such and such a time to get the answer. Their budget doesn't permit long distance calls. Hours vary tremendously; check before you go in.

Dra. Garnet Beach
drabeach@ptoescondido.com.mx
October 1998, updated January 2005

In Manzanillo, Colima

The following article is an excerpt from Susan Dearing's Facts, Tips & Day Trips Guide to Colima & Manzanillo concerning retiring in Manzanillo:

Many other books have been written about retiring in Mexico, and I would hope that before you take such an important step, you'd do a lot of research.

Health is probably your most important concern, both mental and physical. Although we have reasonably good private clinics and hospitals, the modem medical advances haven't come to Manzanillo. Colima has several good hospitals, but it's an hour away. Guadalajara has many excellent health care facilities, but its more than 3-1/2 hours from here.

To live In Mexico full time, you must get an FM-3, a "no Inmigrante" visa, or a FM-2 "Inmigrante restista" visa. You are not allowed to reside in Mexico with the FM-T tourist visa you came in with. There are certain requirements that must be met with each type of document, and it is best to talk to your Immigration official to find out exactly what they are. Don't expect your immigration official to speak much English, so if you don't speak Spanish, bring along an interpreter.

Couples considering retirement to Mexico should make sure both partners feel the same way. If dad's hobby is fishing, but mom's is shopping in Bloomingdale's and Nieman Marcus, Manzanillo may not be her kind of town. You should be adventuresome, flexible in your lifestyle, interested in learning new things, and open to exploring a different culture. You should be able to make friends easily, study the Spanish language, and be able to be separated from your family and friends in the U.S. Patience and tolerance is a must. Everything moves slower here, and "type A" personalities don't fit in. You will be a "minority" race here, and you'll have to accept all the differences that being a gringo entails.

You must be financially stable. It's difficult to get work papers here, and even more difficult to make a living. Tourist season is from November through April. After Easter, Manzanillo looks like a ghost town (except for major Mexican holidays). The heat and humidity can get pretty oppressive for some people, especially when there are other health problems.

You must be a free spirit, a self starter, confident and independent. You must be open minded to a different way of life, but "street-wise" enough not to be taken in by some fast talkers. (if you've got some money to invest, there'll be plenty of folks around who'll take you in as their "business partner.")

There are so many things that we take for granted in the states, such as paying bills by writing out a check. This is a cash economy. You pay your phone bill, electric bill and water bill with cash, in person, standing in line. You wake up one day and the electricity or the phone has been shut off because you didn't pay the bill (that you haven't even received yet). The drivers and the driving "laws" are different. (I use the term "laws" loosely, because even though there are laws and rules of the road, abiding by them is arbitrary.) There are often no modern conveniences, like air conditioning. Dinner is at a different time than back home, usually after 8 p.m. You can't tune in to a radio station in English. Unless you have a satellite dish, all TV programs are in Spanish. Car repairs are a royal pain. You can't find your favorite food at the supermarket. You planned to have pork chops, but the Commercial Mexicana doesn't have any. If you have big feet, there are no shoes to fit. (So who wears shoes anyway?) You hold a dinner party and everybody's late. And so on.

In the past 10 years since I've lived in this country, I've seen many foreigners come and go. In fact, I've thought about going back a few times myself! Before you make that final decision to change your lifestyle, research it carefully. If possible, spend some time here. Ask questions of the gringos already living in Manzanillo, and start making plans for a new and exciting future!

Susan Dearing
Underworld Scuba
www.divemanzanillo.com

Cost of Living

A number of people ask about the cost of living in Mexico. You don't get a straight answer because ... it depends. Some people can live very economically because their basic necessities, food (unprocessed) and housing (away from bustling tourist or industrial locations and not on the beach), are quite inexpensive. However, if your basic necessities include an automobile and airconditioning, then your cost of living is dramatically higher. Gasoline, automobiles, electricity, and anything with an electrical cord are expensive in Mexico.

Politics in Mexico

Foreigners living in Mexico may not vote or otherwise participate in the politics of Mexico. Running for political office is one of the principle methods of getting rich in Mexico. Holding political office opens up a host of opportunities for bribes, kickbacks, favors for hire, business enterprises, etc. The same could be said for most any country but in Mexico it is particularly prevalent such than anyone holding office is just assumed to be engaging in this activity. [If anyone knows of exceptions, please let me know.] It has always been this way and there is no end in sight. Why? Campaigns to throw the bums out, however glorious they may seem, are invariably either hosted by or soon taken over by a rival gang of bad guys seeking to secure power and riches for themselves, turning it into a lose-lose situation for the public and bringing out the worst in both sides. A perfect example of this is the 2006 protests in Oaxaca. Violent clashes between political groups can occasionally catch everyone by surprise such as the 1996 EPR event in which armed attacks on government offices to place simultaneously in the states of Oaxaca, Guerrero, Puebla, Tabasco, Guanajuato and Mexico D.F.

How Do I Get More Information About Living In Mexico?

Well, probably not by asking me since I have never lived in Mexico. You can also ask questions on the Visitors' Comments. A number of the participants live in Mexico.

A number of foreigners living in Mexico have businesses that advertise on this web site. Some rent out rooms in their homes to visitors. They might respond to polite queries about living in Mexico. Check the Real Estate page.

Hello Tom! Just want to warn people who want to open businesses there. I have had a hair-raising year and experience with a Mexican landlord and my restaurant. Seems, in a nutshell, he saw my business taking off well, so has done everything in his power to run me out of money so he can take over.

First he filed a criminal lawsuit in Cihuatlán, bogus, which he eventually lost, then he filed a civil suit in Autlán where they are a very old respected family. Am still fighting that. Learned he has problems with numerous other people who have ventured into business dealings with him, after I was already committed. The first I knew of the civil suit, they came and embargoed my car, all the papers in Spanish; I understand this is illegal in itself. Then the judge eventually signed an order saying he had to return the car, which he refused, and I just keep getting one runaround after the other, designed to run me out of money through legal fees, which he has done, my lawyers have disappeared from the scene, I fled the country on advice from a thirty-year American consulate veteran who says they have a file a foot thick of Americans who were killed or just disappear when they appear to have the upper hand or are fighting lawsuits.

I have Mexican friends there still trying to fight this thing, but I hold out little hope, and basically lost everything, over something I have all the receipts and licenses, etc. saying I complied with everything, by virtue of the fact they can keep presenting roadblocks until you eventually give up and get out and they win by default. I love Melaque, and that is the saddest part, but I thought people considering business there should be aware. To all of the people who frequented my establishment and the international band of Musicians who jammed there so often, thank you for a wonderful two years. I can be contacted at Loca judy@aol.com. Hasta luego to all!

Judy
Locajudy@aol.com
July 2000

Living in U.S.

Leyendo su articulo de Living in Mexico me parece que no tiene idea de lo que pasa cuando una persona extranjera pretende vivir en los Estados Unidos, esto en referencia a su comentario "This is Mexico" francamente estoy de acuerdo en que los tramites y oficinas de Gobierno en Mexico muchas veces dificultan los procesos pero creame yo soy Mexicana y resido en San Diego, Ca. y al hacer mis tramites con la oficina de inmigracion tuve exactamente los mismos problemas a los cuales se enfrentan ustedes al querer vivir legalmente en Mexico, los oficiales son groseros y no siempre hablan español. Yo creo que lo menos que pueden hacer las personas al ir a vivir a cualquier lugar del mundo es aprender el idioma natal.

Gracias

Cristina Gomez
mcgrosse@geocities.com
July 1999

Remodeling a Condo

I wanted to tell you about remodeling a condo in Puerto Vallarta. First, It wasn't a nightmare. Much to my relief, I hired a contractor who was interested in seeing his customers actually happy. His workmen were very skilled and, considering how young they were, it was a pleasant surprise! The main idea I want to express is that I did NOT roll into town like the big American and start ordering everyone around. That absolutely does NOT work in Mexico. The Mexican people must be treated with dignity and respect. Plus it's critical to ask them about their lives, their children and wives and their homes. Where do they live? What work do they perform in their own homes? How old are their children? Do they like their school and their teachers? Are they healthy? All of these things not only endear you to the workers, but it's a wonderful thing to bring our lives closer to theirs. I don't know how many times I've seen Gringo's fly off the handle and start yelling or honking the horn of their car or just generally acting like a an a-hole. The Mexican's will simply walk away mumbling some derogatory statement as they leave.

What's wrong with extending some kindness? We need to do that here in the USA as well. But in Mexico, Americans and Canadians and many Europeans forget that we are guests in THEIR country. I've found that kindness and manners go a very long way when dealing with the Mexican people. Also patience is paramount. Many gringo's don't understand mañana. It doesn't mean tomorrow like so many gringo's think...it simply means not now. If you understand that and can communicate with the Mexican people, then things can happen...eventually. I love Mexico so much. I miss it every day. I can't wait to move there on a permanent basis. Yes I get frustrated, but the up side out weighs any of the negative hoopla! If this can help someone, then that's great. But I have a condo that is drop dead gorgeous that didn't cost me a king's ransom and it's because I was able to find some great craftsmen and I treated them with kindness, patience, a sense of humor and yes a little love. That's all anyone wants really.

PS- it doesn't hurt to smile at people. Sometimes they don't smile back, and that's OK, they are trying to literally scratch out a living some days and they just don't feel like smiling back. God, I love Mexico.

Chris Milner,
Denver, Co.

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The Pacific Coast of Mexico www.tomzap.com Tom Penick:  tom@tomzap.com