Mexico issues travel warning against Mexicans travelling to and in Arizona

[www.examiner.com]

Seemed funny to me to see a travel advisory issued this direction but after reading I don't know what to think. I must carry my visitors visa when I leave Canada and my passport at all times when I am in the USA, is Arizona only asking for this or is it going to be processed in a really bad way for any Mexicans visiting, going to school etc in Arizona? As a Canadian in BC we have not experienced much with illegal aliens from Mexico, I do have friends in Calif that feel differently than I do. We have our own issues in BC. Is this a good or bad thing for Arizona to do??

The new law in Arizona gives the locals the same enforcement capabilities that were previously reserved to Federal authorities. Problem here is that many local law enforcement people have raciest agendas and now they have a new weapon to use on their victims.

Susan, it is a vile thing for Arizona to do. Do you need to have your passport in case you are stopped in your native Canada? That is what this amounts too, especially for all the Americans of latino descent who are legal residents yet will be profiled for immigration checks if they travel within the state of Arizona. Bad law, bad policy. Most likely unconstitutional. And just more evidence of the hatred toward immigrants of color so rampant in some parts of the US.

Do you suppose that the random checks for migratory documents carried out by immigration here in Mexico don't involve any sort of racial profiling? I find that difficult to believe. I am naturalized so I have no FM anything but I look like the WASP I am so I keep my Credential (Mexican voter's card) on my person just in case anyone asks and for me that is no big deal.

Good lord almighty, the cops aren't stupid. If they find someone wandering in the desert they're going to ask them for I.D. If they pull over a van and find 17 people inside they're going to ask them for I.D. If they find someone hanging around a drug infested intersection or neighborhood they're going to ask them for I.D. The cops are going to be searching for predators, robbers, rapists, thugs, dealers and users. These jerks prey on illegal immigrants and citizens alike --- they have no morals, they have no scruples, they are as bad as the worst in Mexico and indeed many have fled north to let things cool off before they head south again. Illegal immigrant criminals have no ID, no fingerprints in a database, no accountability, no traceablility and nothing to lose. A personal code of conduct and morals divides them from the type of scum that is ruining Mexico today.

Mexico REQUIRES a passport be used to obtain a tourist card or FM-3. US citizens whom are convicted felons cannot obtain a passport, therefore entry to Mexico beyond the border zone AND/OR for more than 72 hours, is punishable by jail, deportation and a suspended prison sentence. Prison means reclusorio, not el bote.

If you think (too many) Mexican cops, politicians, persons in power and authority do not discriminate, select, single out, and take liberties with gringos, solely because of race, think again.

Racist Arizona cops "out of control". One single documented abuse case against a legal resident or one of the hundreds of thousands of latino AMERICAN CITIZENS in Arizona is going to render an investigation by the US Department of Justice so fast that it'd make your head swim. Can I count the number of legal latino zealots that are at this moment praying for such a momentous error? No. Is the gubernatorial majority in Arizona going to risk getting huevos rancheros all over their face? I think not.

Nan & Rentmex, we believe you are missing the point. Think of the thousands of US born citizens of hispanic descent who can and will be be demanded proof of citizenship. That is the biggest problem with this law. The issue is not that visitors (legal or otherwise) will be required proof of legal status. White people (legal or otherwise) will not have a problem in Arizona. We don't know how it works in Canada, but in the US we have never before needed to carry proof of our US citizenship before.

And why should the fact that Mexican immigration is guilty of racial profiling make it okay? We don't get that line of reasoning at all.

Good discussion as usual, miss you Nan!

Quote
Palafito
we believe you are missing the point.

Who's we? What are you the newly created committee for monitoring Arizona laws?

I (all by myself - not much of a joiner really) believe that you are missing the point. The Pew Hispanic Center, a nonpartisan research organization in Washington, estimates 11.5 million to 12 million "unauthorized migrants" live in the US today. [pewresearch.org] That is a lot of people living and working under the table and I don't believe for one moment that so many undocumented people "arrive" in any country without someone at the border looking the other way a lot of the time. To me it appears to be another example of "don't ask don't tell". Arizona have decided to ask and with all of the kerfuffle that is causing it is quite likely that Arizona's action will put some focus on the problem. And hopefully put some pressure on the US federal government to allow work visas for people to come to the US and do the work that apparently many Americans don't want to do.

I had a Mexican national working for me this winter who had lived in the US for 15 years. She and her husband both worked under the table up there because they couldn't get working visas. She came here to visit her aging parents and then was afraid to return to the US because she had heard it was more difficult to cross these days. A few weeks ago the husband in the US was hit on the head at work and has been in a coma ever since. She tried to get permission to go back up and see him but of course it was denied because he has no papers and neither do her three daughters who live and work in the US. She isn't here now she is in Baja norte trying to get across the border. It isn't right that she had to live up there illegally for 15 years and that she now can't return in a time of family crisis. The American government need to address this issue and allow working visas for these workers that they need in the country. Arizona's action will call attention to the issue. The longer "don't ask don't tell" remains in place and the situation is simply ignored the longer it will go on.

Quote
Palofito
White people (legal or otherwise) will not have a problem in Arizona.

.
Oh really? Well you don't get much whiter than me and I was pulled over on highway 10 in Arizona heading for Phoenix in November 2005. I was a passenger in my friend's California plated car and while we were speeding a bit he didn't ticket her for it. He did however ask both of us where we were from. I said Canada since I was born there and lived the first 38 years of my life there. I was asked to produce my Canadian passport right there on the side of highway 10 and I sure as heck don't appear or sound Latina so I suppose they were checking for white Canadians that day.

I think we need a good fence on our Northern Border even more than the southern border. I've liked almost all the Mexicans I've met but can't say the same for those uppity Canadians (who are just wanna-be Americans anyway).

Any one bother reading the bill? FTR; my opinion is that it is a populist, reactionary measure, crafted by politicians to jockey for votes in November. It certainly highlights a need to review and overhaul current Fed Immigration policy.

The bill addresses the 4th amendment issues quite thoroughly, the authors were quite sound in their legal approach. I doubt any Constitutional challenges will go very far, but do predict many lawsuits will be filed in vain. I also don't think the law will be very effective. There are already many important Police depts commenting that they won't enforce it.

Anyone been to S. Arizona or PHX recently? Take a drive through S. Tucson or PHX, read the bill, and then comment!

How so many interpret actions against illegal immigrants as anti-Mexican, or "racism of immigrants of color"...I just don't understand the leap of logic. Arizonians, like most Americans, are not against immigrants, they are against illegal immigration and all the issues that come with it. It is both a State and Fed issue that has been ignored by our public servants far too long.

Gee Nan, why are you so touchy? "WE" are a couple who post under the name Palafito, and "we" (all two of us!) do not see why you would think we are claiming to represent an expert committee on Arizona's laws. Just "our" opinions. Does "our" responding as a couple bother you that much?

And "WE" still think you are missing the point "we" raised about the impact this law will have on AMERICAN BORN citizens of Latino decent who will fit the racial profile and be required to show their passports while living in their NATIVE land. Trying to compare that to your own admittedly Canadian experiences in Arizona just doesn't work (think apples and oranges, okay?) You were pulled over for speeding. You weren't pulled over because you looked like a white Canadian. Once you were stopped for speeding the law enforcer correctly inquired as to your status. The new law in Arizona requires police officers to check immigration status of any one that they suspect could be illegal, not just when they are stopped for legitimate reasons. What could raise suspicion of illegality? Speaking Spanish? Eating a lot of salsa picante? Brown skin? One Congressman from California (who supports the arizona statute) claims you can tell illegals by looking at their shoes... Way too vague and open for abuse.

As for your research (all by yourself, wow!!), "we" certainly were not and are not disputing that illegal immigration is a problem in the US, especially in the border states, and Arizona in particular. Again, not the point. The new legilation in Arizona is not aimed at border enforcement.

By the way, the first legal action taken to challenge the law was filed by a law enforcement professional from Arizona...

Zummie1954 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think we need a good fence on our Northern
> Border even more than the southern border. I've
> liked almost all the Mexicans I've met but can't
> say the same for those uppity Canadians (who are
> just wanna-be Americans anyway).

Somebody needs to educate himself, I don't know of any Canadian who'd actually wanna-be an American, God forbid.

Brenda, Jesus, the two girls age 9 and 5, an infant and I were pulled over. They came to my window. I was not driving. They demanded "We need to see" your immigration permission. I handed it to them. Three of them went over every single page in my immigration permission. Then they asked for my passport. Another 5 minutes of studying it page by page. Then came the car permit, then my passport of my native land of origin.

Total time spent 12 minutes. I have a clock in the dashboard.

No one else of the eighty or so cars that passed were pulled over.

No one else in the car was asked for any identification including the driver who was driving my car. Not even a driver license.

This occurred three days ago.

Make of it what you wish.

I was happy to comply.

If "they" should do this in Arizona I would be happy to comply. So would Armando, Frank, Arturo and Isabela, all US native born citizens living in Arizona and thusly arrived at according to their emails.

I am Canadian and proud of it - never ever want to be a wanna be American, why on earth would I wish that upon myself. On the other hand I would love it if Mexico and Canada could merge.....I could happily work down there for low wages and the Mexicans who wanted to could come up here and work...but America...i think not! Mexicanada..um, sounds good. lol and now off to a lighter post.

yup.
you can have your country zummie.
i don't think you would find anyone in canada that wants to live in the terrible country you call your own

wow...i thought i was crazy, but this thread has been a great help...i wish to thank all of you for restoring my faith in myself...god bless you all...

dry house...hunkered down on the ranch selling coconuts and wondering what the heck you folk drank for your breakfast beaverage...

Lucky Susan. You were able to choose where you were born. The rest of us just take whatever comes our way.

Myself I would just L-O-V-E to drench my chilaquiles in Maple Syrup. Oops you northerners have your Quebecois. FrancoMexiCan? Sounds like spicy canned spaghetti to me.

Dryhouse, you ain't nuts despite your best intentions. People are over-reacting to something that is going to be moderated and mellowed in a little while.

The French suffered through tens of thousands of automobiles burned because of racial tensions.

I see far too many on this board who should be sophisticated enough to not let this get to them. But it has and now there is bickering between the Canadian and US factions. What is the objective here? To win an opinion that really doesn't matter a thousand miles south of the rio bravo.

IT DOESN'T MATTER. Not here. Not with fellow board posters. What matters or should matter is for each and every one of us to do something within our ability to help someone else mano a mano, cara a cara. Nationalistic ranting and raving serves one purpose. Destruction. To divide. To usurp compassion. And most repugnantly to stop believing --- become cynical. How ugly do you wish to grow?

peace

Probably one of the most repugnant things around - someone who believes that they are a better human being based solely on where they were born.

Happy to be canadian and "right on rentmexbungalows!

I'm Canadian, really like Mexico and Mexicans but I really can't understand why anybody would want to be a loud, mouthy wanna be American,

I'll leave this post after i ask this? Opol you say i was lucky to choose where i was born? HUH? Please tell me how i made that choice? Gotta go, the hockey game is on and for this one at least we canadians are in the lead...

I'm XXXXX. really like Mexico and Mexicans but I really can't understand why anybody would want to be a loud, mouthy wanna be XXXXX:

A self-made oxymoron

It seems to me that this is getting off the topic, Dummie, oh I am sorry that should of been Gummie, why do you have to BASH the Canada people.We are all not perfect, but then neither are all American, but I still like my American friends


Gummie you must be a very unhappy person, you always have to make a nasty remark about EVERYTHING, are you one off those people that you call a (Sh-- Disturber) that likes to stir the pot???

Why don't you put your picture on here so we can all see your face and know you when we pass you on the street,be a MAN not a mouse!! Put a real picture and show us what a real MAN looks like!!!!

I sure don't understand why so many people say the Canadians have no sense of humor. My picture holding fish are all over these boards but here's one more. PLEASE do me the favor of crossing the street if you see me coming.

Yes 2dog Zummie loves to stir the pot. BTW he has posted his mug on this site probably more than anybody else. Short, dark, stubby guy with a big grin on his face and either a fishing rod in his hand or one or more fish in his possesion. He is actually harmless and sometimes really funny, but if you are offended by him you could always put him on your ignore message from this user list.

Gri-lango...... I agree with your post...read the bill before you bash it!
Palafito....... if you would read the bill you would see that your remarks to Nan are not defining the bill correctly.....you stated:
" The new law in Arizona requires police officers to check immigration status of any one that they suspect could be illegal, not just when they are stopped for legitimate reasons." there is nothing in this law that gives anyone the right to stop anyone with out a "legitimate reason" such as speeding or breaking the law in some other way......
I for one would like to thank the Gov for having the courage to sign this bill and bring to the front a problem that our government has ignored for far to long She has asked our fed gov to help her with this and what she has got was a slow down in and fed response to illegals while the drug dealers and illegals are making it stressful for the good people that live, work and travel in our border states ... Obama promised all Latinos he would address the immigration issue quickly....but like so many others promises of change he made in the campaign he has failed to give us the change he promised...... all he has CHANGED is what he stands for now that he is President.....
I love the Mexican people and Mexico but just like in the USA and Canada they have rules to follow if I want to live here and work here and I am targeted by the Mexican gov when it comes to checking my work papers....every year they come by and ask to see all of my papers.....do they go down the street and ask all my Mexican neighbors for their papers....NO! and they can do it legally they don't worry about being political correct.....we are so politically correct in our country it hinders our ability to stand up for what is correct and legal.....maybe that is why we all like Mexico so much.....Granted the Mexican gov has it share of issues but for now it doesn't run every aspect of our lives.....we are free to make more choices in Mexico......if every peoples would just do what is correct and follow common sense the gov would not feel the need to make new laws to control us more ( by the way this is not a new law it is the same law that the Fed Gov has in place but refuses to enforce for fear of hurting someones feelings) .....most of us are not against other nationalities we are not bigots or raciest we just want all people to respect our laws....if you want to live here follow the rules just like I have to when I am in Mexico,Canada, Italy or any other place I travel.....
my 2 cents and then some

Nice posts Gri-lano and Vickie but I am sure the pompousfitos won't be swayed in their opinion. Guilty liberals seldom change their tune.

del sol, please let us not use this as a forum to bash other nationalities. We all have our flaws and I personally don't have any problems with Americans or Mexicans. I would take offence to Zummies comments (and I did the 1st time I encountered one) but after reading his posts over the years I believe that most of his comments are written with his tonque planted firmly in his cheek.
As far as his IQ goes most people who have obtained a law degree, run a succesful bridal shop, live right on Tampa Bay and can afford to fish whereever and whenever they want are NOT unintelligent.
Geez Nan can you believe it, me defending Jon?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2010 03:54PM by Suzette Elder.