Very Very Sad News

This morning in Newtown, Connecticut, a gunman walked into an elementary school and killed 26 people.
20 kids and 6 adults.

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I see where law enforcement officials are saying the killer "may possibly" have had a "personality disorder". I wonder what has happened to the simple word CRAZY? Its hard for me to imagine anyone living with some lunatic punk like that without having a clue that he was a nutcase. Be it the mother, father or brother somebody had to have known he was a sicko.

This is horrific. There was also the shopping mall shooting in Happy Valley Ore., this week. Then the Denver mass killer at at a movie screening. I do not hear of these kinds of mass murders in Mexico. True, mamyinnocents are caught in the crossfire, which is horrible, but you do not hear a travel advisory saying one should nod not travel tothe USA. I do not want to see anyone die, but one druggie killling another is less disturbing than these helpless little kids. I donor know, but I donot thinks this happens inMexico.

Sad

From reports it appears the mother knew her son wasnt normal as she herself had taken him out of school. I believe there will be sufficient evidence compiled to show that this punk should have taken out of school and given mental treatment. Schools need better security. For more reasons than just this act. A well trained armed guard could have possibly stopped this animal.
Ill never believe thay noone had spotted very irregular patterns with this murderer. It was information possibly withheld by his own mother. That may never be known now.

Can you imagine answering a knock on your door and seeing this punk standing there and saying he seems normal? I damn sure cant! One look at this bug eyed lunatic and Id prepare to eliminate the threat. I wish someone had. This is sickening!

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She, his mother, bought the guns L.T. Should she have also brought guns to arm those first graders to protect them from her son who took the guns his mother brought and killed them? No one will shoot themselves out of this and, at some point, you have to wonder why some people cannot see the ugly nose in front of their hard nosed face...

It appears there were signs of problems with the killer's mental health that were possibly ignored, but nothing so far has come out that indicates he was prone to violence, although it is early in the investigation. But one thing we do know for sure: without access to semi-automatic weapons, this never would have happened on this scale. There is no reason to allow Glocks and other semi-automatic weapons to be sold. I am not against private ownership of guns, but it is long past time to restrict the sale of semi-autoimatic weapons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2012 03:05AM by paul falduto.

Sorry Alan but the mother brought the guns to her home all legally registered to her. It was her who evidently dropped the ball by allowing her crazy son access to them. That mistake cost her her own life. Gun restriction laws avoided the boy from buying a firearm prior to the shooting. The firearms were no more at fault in the tragedy than her automobile would have been had she left him access to the keys and he went off and plowed into a school bus. The bottom line is ANYONE so mentally deranged to shoot their own mother and go an a spree like this murderer did had severe mental problems and should have been attended a long time ago.
MADD has done tremendous work stepping up penalties for drunken driving and I believe this should send a signal to the community that as the population increases more and more mentally impaired people will surface. Steps to attend those needs should be addressed in vigor, yesterday.
As far as "semi automatic" weapons being sold. Be it a "Semi automatic" or a 18th century lever action rifle. Nothing is going to stop a lunatic from inflicting damage upon inocent bystanders.
This situation is a case of ignoring the signals of a abnormal mind. And Im quite sure it could have been avoided in many ways. Finding the teacher, neighbor, family member or classmate that will stand up now and state that they knew something was wrong with this misfit may be challenging but Ill bet its forthcoming. Prevention of the crime is the key here and certainly not restricting law abiding citizens the right of arming to defend themselves when confronted with any criminal isnt the correct approach.
Hell I dont need a degree in psychology to know this bug eyed punk inst normal. Do you?

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Guns are never the problem, of course not. And if you believe that, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you.

As usual, L.T.'s take on this tragedy is both laughable and sad at the same time. Guns laws prevented this man from buying guns so the system worked? Really? He got them anyway, so isn't this further proof current gun laws DON'T work well, not that they do? Not in "L.T. Land" apparently, where up is own, black is white, etc. Alice's Queen of Hearts would love our Loony Tunes.

And while it might get L.T.'s rocks off to beat this chest and run off his faux tough guy macho big mouth screaming about this "animal," there is no evidence so far that would have indicated that this man was a danger to himself or to others. He did not appear to be some type of pyscho, he had autism or some similar developmental disorder. What should we do, Mr. Smartie Pants, round up everyone with these problems, millions and millions of them and jail them? Put them in mental health facilities which you and your fellow conservatives don't want to fund now (conservative state legislatures are cutting funds for mental health care all across the country)? Concentration camps, maybe?

Certainly there are reasonable things we can try to do to identify and treat people with mental illness. But most of them don't manifest their latent problems until it is too late, as we have seen time after time in these types of incidents. If these people didn't have access to semi-automatic weapons, they could not do these horrible deeds on this scale. Just this week, a mental patient went on a rampage in China at a school. He had a large knife. He wounded 22, several seriously, but none were killed. It is long past time to revise our gun laws, which we can so without taking away the right of private citizens to own non semi-automatic handguns and rifles.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2012 11:03AM by paul falduto.

P.F & A.V, its a good thing this guy did not shoot Trayvon Martin, you both would be going crazy by now.

L.T., if I understand you correctly, you are advocating taking certain individuals away from guns rather than taking guns away from all individuals. If this is the case, there is much we agree on. Guns should not be in the hands of those who have the potential to and have demonstrated the desire to inflict harm on others without cause.

A problem arrises in considering how society will identify them. Your "bug eyed punk" is someone else's loved one and looks are a rather subjective criteria. Perhaps, access to firearms and exhibiting anti-social, intolerant behavior and speech would be better signs.

For example, someone who had repeatedly written of his extreme hatred of other faiths and lifestyles and sent threateningly hostile messages to others for expressing disagreement while claiming a high level of knowledge and admiration for weapons would likely be considered a risk to himself and others and swept up in the dragnet of the "mentally deranged".

There is trouble down that road and there are no easy answers by any route. Not allowing any individual who wants them have automatic weapons, multi-shot clips and unlimited access to ammo is one step. Serious background checks is another. Some individuals should not have access to guns, agreed.

Lets see. Some people want to claim he was just a shy kid etc. The truth is beginning to seep out and naturally noone wants to say that they dropped the ball. But.....
"His high school classmates took little notice of Mr. Lanza, but school officials did. Newtown school officials assigned a permanent psychologist to Mr. Lanza in his freshman year of high school in 2007, and flagged him to the school's security chief when he was still in middle school, a former school official said. "He was very withdrawn and meek," said Mr. Novia, who left the district in 2008. He said Mr. Lanza "was one of those freshmen coming in very much in need of watching."

Mr. Novia said it wasn't unusual for school officials to meet about troubled students, but Mr. Lanza's problems were more severe than most. He said he told the school's three security staffers who reported to him to carefully monitor Mr. Lanza, concerning "where he was, who he was with, and what he was doing."

Personally I think the mother knew she had a problem child and failed to respond to his evident needs adequately. Permanent psychologist, flagged to the security chief and monitored by the the schools three security officers sure doesnt sound like any high school kid Ive ever known.
Alan Vlautin said "A problem arrises in considering how society will identify them. Your "bug eyed punk" is someone else's loved one and looks are a rather subjective criteria. Perhaps, access to firearms and exhibiting anti-social, intolerant behavior and speech would be better signs."
Apparently he was identified as I suspected. Most everyone is someones loved one but that someone should step up to the plate and control them even it does cost money, time and trouble. Something this mother evidently ignored. With love comes a responsability in cases like this.
And yes Paul I recommend any treatment for sick individuals such as this punk including concentration camps if necessary.
Much of the evidence is still being supressed by investigation officials. Im quite sure this could have been avoided.





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I also tend to agree with Chief of Police Tim Fitch of St Louis County. He speaks of arming school personel. Since airline pilots were armed there havent been anymore hijackings. Making schools a firearm free zone has also made them a target for nutcases. Noone is more to blame for what has happened at those schools than those deciding that was a good idea simply because it made them feel good doing so. Not because it was good but because it felt good. Facts are facts and just look where the vast majority of these killings happen. In Gun Free Zones . All safely secured until the lunatic decides to attack a location where it will not be defended. For those who want to make it a gun issue allow me to ask how many times have you seen anyone go crazy at a gun show where thousands of firearms and plenty ammunition is in easy reach of law abiding gun owners and firearms enthusiasts? You also notice the infamous Fort Hood massacre by the Islamic terrorist was carried out in an area where even our own soldiers were unarmed. As crazy as the mass murderer is they always seem to pick vulnerable defenseless targets.
No doubt the mental health issue needs vast attention. But trampling the rights of law abiding citizens isnt the answer and never will be. Theres no need to open debate on automatic weapons, high powered military weapons or armor piercing bullets or any of the other terminology used by the liberal media to describe this terrible incident either.

Texas Rep Louie Gohmert also had some words of wisdom to add.

GOP lawmaker wishes Sandy Hook principal was armed with assault rifle

Rep. Louie Gohmert, a Republican from Texas, says he wishes Dawn Hochsprung, the principal of the Sandy Hook Elementary School, was armed with an M-4 assault rifle when she confronted Adam Lanza, the shooter who killed 20 children.

Of course Loony Tunes wants to lay all the blame on the shooter's mental health problems and none on the guns. And as usual, he bends, and even breaks, the facts to make them fit his preconceived notions. But debate is going to be open on the issue of semi-automatic weapons, in fact it already is open, even though those of his ilk want it swept under the rug again. We shall see where it all leads, but I think old Loony Tunes already knows he may be on the losing side in this case. Don't worry, Loony, there will still be hundreds of millions gun left even if semi-automatic weapons are banned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2012 07:21PM by paul falduto.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2013 11:19AM by Pedro.

Nice post Pedro. Im quite sure many school officials would gladly take any required training to be able to defend themselves and the students. Running and hiding doesnt get the job done in most instances. Its time to put a stop to the "Killing Fields" by allowing Americans to protect themselves. After airlines allowed trained pilots to arm themselves, presto 0 hijackings. These nerds who committ such atrocities are generally cowards and usually end up killing themselves. Its time to stop them and stop them now. Just look at the last scenario. Victims call armed policeman to respond and as the murderer heard them approaching he does himself. Most likely would have just stayed at home and did himself in his bedroom had he known there were no easy targets to be taken advantage of.
There definitely needs to be something done to correct the problem of law abiding citizens not being allowed to protect themselves. An armed citizenry is a polite citizenry. LOL!

I have gone back over some older posts by Alan and also Paul, as well as L.T. a pattern has developed, when Alan and Paul disagree, they start calling L.T., Looney Toons, or other posters like Mexpipe, Mexpiddle. We can disgree, however both Alan and Paul seem to think they moral police of this forum, and anyone disagreeing with them are beneath them intelectually, however their stooping to childish namecalling some of those that don't agree with their point of view, would lead one to believe, they are the ones being intolerant, and not near as intelligent as they seem to think they are.

I have always called L.T. "Loony Tunes." It appears to me that a man who thinks restricting semi-automatic weapons "tramples on the rights of citizens" but rounding up millions of people whose only crime is that are developmentally disabled and throwing them in concentration camps is just fine, richly deserves the name. The man is nuts, pure and simple. And if that offends your sense of propriety and good taste, Lamar, I couldn't care less.

There will be no gun control not when there is over $2 billion spent on arms in the u.s. each year!



FYI Lt..........noone is the last name of peter noone lead singer for herman and the hermits. If you must, it's no one!

Its not about what I think. Its what the founding Fathers who wrote the Constitution thought and went through with firearms in their hands to gain the liberty to do so. To begin any type of gun confiscation would incite a civil war and definitely a civil war that I would take part in. And it wouldnt be hunkered down behind a computer or hiding in a closet either. The 2nd Amendment is as sacred as the 1st! I wont lower myself to your level by namecalling and personal insults. Ive seen way too many of your kind. Theyre not worth the trouble of arguing with. You dont seem to realize this isnt L.T.s fight against you as you and Alan want it to appear. Youll neither one even had a comment or made an opinion until you had the opportunity to start your personal attcaks as usual. Read the 2nd Amendment and argue with it. All I want to do is abide by it when Im in the U.S. and use its power to protect my rights, family and property. Until then buy a AR-15, fully load it and put it in a safe place. Betcha it wont hurt a soul until its operated by a human. If its you protecting your home and family thank me for the tip. If its some lunatic you freely gave access to its your fault. Simple isnt it? Build more concentration camps. Hell FEMA already has em ready. Theres alot of people who dont want their rights trampled by liberal politicians taking advantage of a terrible incident. Some like myself wont tolerate it! LOL!

}paul falduto Wrote

Ol Samuel telling it as he sees it again. LOL!

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On Dec 15th I posted the below post. Now we have this information from investigators. Again its very clear this is a mental health issue and not a firearm issue. These type of individuals should be handled accordingly. This could have been avoided. At one time a young man that was babysitting Adam Lanza has stated when he was just a kid the mother told him to watch Adam at every moment and not even go to the bathroom. If theres anyone to blame besides Lanza himself it appears to be his own mother. I knew anyone as sinister as this monster couldnt have kept it completely hidden. And yes Paul if theres a million more like him roaming the streets of America they should be incarcerated or maybe more drastic options taken unless they respond to treatment and therapy.

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L.T. Wrote

Earth to LT, who is talking about "confiscation" of guns? Even if a ban on semi-automatic weapons is passed, those already in private hands would stay that way, the law would not be retroactive.. And there would be no effect on possession of non-semoautomatic weapons at all. There might be a restriction on sales through non-licensed dealers (that is, closing the so-called "gun show loophole") but that is long overdue, even George W. Bush was in favor of that.

We already have a lot of restrictions on what kind of weaponry we can buy, automatic weapons have banned since the 1930s, for example. Our Founding Fathers passed the Second Amendment in an era of muskets, not AR-15s. There is nothing in that amendment that says we have to be able to buy any weapon that might be invented and you darn well know that, so haul down the "Don't Tread On Me" flag.

And you're right it is not "you against me" in the larger world, but it is on this forum, as you represent the extreme views that I think are destroying this country, a country that you have chosen not to live in any more, by the way. Not that that isn't your right and not that you can't have an opinion as I assume you are still a citizen, but you don't have to live with the problems that those with your views are causing here. Good luck buying that AR-15 in Mexico.

You think this is just a matter of individual nuts and that stopping them through some type of physic foresight is the solution. Well good luck with that. There are millions of Adam Lanza's out there. Sure it appears easy to see now in hindsight he might have been a problem, although so far at least it appears that was little to indicate he was prone to violence, especially pre-planned violence against others. Lanza's mother told the babysitter to never turn his back, but why? So he wouldn't grab her guns and go shoot up the school or so he wouldn't stick pins in his arms, or something like that. We may never know for sure, but it appears the latter is far more likely than the former.

Of course you, Mr. Liberty-Lover, would rather round up a million innocent people and lock them up at a cost of billions of dollars to the taxpayer than change one gun law. So much for their liberty. Then of course you would complain about our-of-control government spending. But of course, as I said yesterday, you're nuts. Most folks know the fact is that if Adam Lanza did not have access to semi-automatic weapons, which have no legitimate use for either personal security or sports, he could not have committed this atrocity on this scale. We need reasonable restrictions on guns that do not violate the Second Amendment and that is not only possible, but long overdue.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2012 07:18AM by paul falduto.

Ill take the time to dissect your last post for the benefit of anyone who without adequate knowledge of the circumstances may be giving it any slighy validity. Lets hope you dont continue changing it after the 4th edit in an hour......
First there is no pending legislation at this time and confiscation has been mentioned. So your version of the pending threat of legislation carries no more weight than that of my own.
The 2nd Amendment like many others did not set any dates or times for expiration. Sure technology has changed firearms as it has every other device known to man in the last couple hundred years. But the 2nd Amendment clearly states the right to keep and bear arms. One man may prefer the latest in technological advances and another may be satisfied with his old lever action rifle thats a hundred years old. Should you be forced to start buying a handcranked 4 cyl automobile without air conditioning because your neighbors kid got ahold of his mothers car keys and got drunk and crashed her Corvette into a school bus? Id hardly think so. Should she be punished because she legally bought the Corvette instead of a Ford Focus? Of course not.
Mexicos laws are theirs and although I dont agree with them on the issue of firearms I wont go into it. The unarmed citizenry already has enough trouble as they stand defenseless. And no I wont go looking for a semi automatic rifle in Mexico because the paperwork is far too time consuming and controlling it wouldnt be worth it. Although rifles are easily purchased should anyone care to do so.
Then you ramble on obviously ignoring the facts of Lanzas lunacy. High School officials assigned a full time psychologist to him and alerted school security personel to watch him at all times. His mother was in the middle of redtape to have him forcefully committed to a mental health insitution. There is exactly where things went wrong. This process should be revised and overhauled to immediately respond to individuals like Lanza who obviously are in desperate need of help and rehabilitation. You constantly refer to "millions" of people like Lanza. Fortunately Ive never met a single one. You speak as though his kind are behind every corner. I hardly think so. Ive never heard of any school age kid that had a psychologist assigned to them full time. And my son has over 300 fellow students plus a full time psychologist that doesnt have anyone assigned to her full time. The point being this kid sent up more than red flags. He was a known problem and the government system failed. Just as sure as it would have failed had he been able to buy the rifle he tried to when he was turned down by current gun laws. Speaking of which some non thinkers are constantly mentioning the gun show "loophole" that allows private citizens to buy and sell firearms without a waiting period. Do you honestly think that will make any difference to a lunatic when he decides to go on a rampage? Hardly. Ive bought and sold many firearms to private citizens without any paperwork. And people will continue doing so. No biggie there either.
Then you dribble on about Lanza having access to semi automatic weapons etc. Just what gun law would have restricted his access to his mothers legally purchased and registered weapons? Not a single one. That blame belongs to his poor deceased mother for not locking her weapons away. It appears she did have a need for a weapon of self defense. And in hand at all times to defend herself from the demon within her home.
One last note to attempt to clarify a couple points. One is the medias attempt to demonize a Colt AR-15 by calling it an "assault rifle". Thats as appropriate as calling a knife an assault knife or a brick an assault brick when its used to assault someone. The semi automatic label attached to it also applies to rifles such as Remington, Ruger and Wichester 22s which are often a novices first rifle to train with. The semi automatic is just another word in the terminology of media misfits who know not what they speak of. Then we move into the term "high powered" to describe the 223 round normally chambered for the AR-15. Of the hundreds of center fire rifle cartridges the 223 is one of the least powerful rounds available. Generally speaking when knowledgable gun experts speak of "high powered" cartidges the long lived 30.06 or 300 Win. Mag comes to mind. Certainly not the puny 223 target or plinking round who many experts have long questioned as being adequate for military use.
More on the actual technical side of firearms. I doubt the situation would have ended better had the murderer chosen a 12 ga pump action shotgun to use in his rampage. Considering his targets were defenseless humans in a close range scenario. Had he chosen a 3" 12 ga round of #4 Buckshot he would have sent 41 .24" projectiles towards his targets with each single press of the trigger. Multiply that by 5 times which is the usual amount of shells a pump action gun holds. And you have volleys of 205 deadly projectiles going downrange within 5 seconds maybe less if the shooter is efficient. Plus another complete reload in a matter of seconds. Note each of those projectiles from the shotgun are deadly and a slight bit larger in diameter than the puny .223" round from a AR-15. Thats bot considering that many shotguns are capapable of holding 8 rounds of shells. That would increse the downrange volley to 328 projectiles. All in much less time than it would take even the most experienced shooter to fire the same amount of projectiles from the semi automatic "assault rifle". Im quite sure you could ask any experienced self defense practitioner or law enforcement expert which he would fear most coming his way if he or she were unarmed and maniac with a semi automatic AR-15 or a 12 guage pump action shotgun loaded with buckshot and Im sure you would get the same answser from all. The shotgun no doubt about that. So I honestly hope this clarifies a slight part of an uninformed viewer audience on weaponry. I could go into more details but I believe it is sufficient to clarify. Semi automatic forearms and their restriction, elimination or attempted confiscation is not the solution to a mentally ill maniac on the loose.
And just for the record Paul on my wall next to my bed as well as in my business the Gadsen Flag is represented with a quote by Thomas Jefferson. "I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.
Thomas Jefferson" And thats not to mention the Gadsen Flag flies over many of my shirts in the form of a patch that Reads "Dont Tread On Me!" Its accompanied by a Sheepdog patch sometimes so have no fear. LOL!

One begins to sense a feeling of desperation in those who claim the way out of the predicament of increasing horrific gun violence is more guns to more people, as if obesity can be cured by more twinkles.

Aside from the ludicrous nature of such a suggestion, the practical matter of training and arming teachers and other school staff would be financially prohibitive. As many teachers now buy school supplies for the students to supplement the paltry budgets available to public education, it is hard to see how the burdens of such additional requirements could be placed on them.

Such a scheme would require increased taxation and if gun advocates are serous with this proposal, they should be prepared to accept them. Let's say a ten cent per bullet tax and a 50% luxury tax on gun purchases with the revenue used to fund this teacher arming proposal and to treat and care for the victims of gun violence. Such reasoning works in leveling taxes on tobacco and alcohol and is equally applicable to guns.

It is refreshing to see some gun advocates focus on the mental health component of the problem by urging society to identify and treat those of a violent and anti-social nature.

As I noted in a previous post, identifying those should not be based on a subjective criteria such as looks but by their words and threats, saying, "For example, someone who had repeatedly written of his extreme hatred of other faiths and lifestyles and sent threateningly hostile messages to others for expressing disagreement while claiming a high level of knowledge and admiration for weapons would likely be hconsidered a risk to himself and others and swept up in the dragnet of the "mentally deranged".

If one adds the unilateral advocacy of concentration camps for American citizens and threatens to take part in an armed civil war should public policy not go the way he wishes, mental health professionals should be alerted and any access to sharp objects should be limited.

That said, this latest outrage seems to have turned the tide. Assault weapons will be again banned, bullet clip lengths will be snipped, background checked will be more rigorous and other measures enacted, perhaps even a nice little bullet tax. Should the NRA continue its adamant stance, which is unlikely, it will lose its standing with mainstream America and no longer be a decisive factor in Republican politics.

Most Americans get and support the right to bear arms, but most no longer see the necessity to bear every type of arm conceivable and this is a sensible position.

Pedro, I read the article with interest, but for the reasons above, I find the official Libertarian position on this, while, ideologically pure, completely impractical but thank you for adding it to the discussion.

Lamar, keep up your research, every school needs a hall monitor. What's your dress code. :)

And dont tell us Paul. Its going to be you or someone of your ilk that decides how to interprete the very simple straight worded 2nd Amendment to meet your criteria. Opinions such as yours are the joke of this century. Any restrictions on guns violates the 2nd Amendment. Ive often asked but have thusfar failed to get a reasonable response. Just which of the 27 words of the 2nd Amendment do you not understand?

The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:
" A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I not only consider it a Right I consider it a Duty to Keep and Bear Arms!


"We need reasonable restrictions on guns that do not violate the Second Amendment and that is not only possible, but long overdue."
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2012 09:18AM by paul falduto.

This small Texas school has the right idea and it sounds as though more states are prepared to follow suit. Thats great. The below commentary by one anti gunner is pitiful. Im quite sure if interviews were possible with the deceased adult victims of this monster they would tell you firmly, "Yes we would prefer to have been in a position to save our lives and the lives of the children who were killed!"
Had any of the adults present been adequately armed I feel this massacre wouldnt have happened and surely not to the degree it did.
To listen to this Ladd Everitt below asking if we are "going to put teachers, people teaching 6-year-olds in a school, and expect them to respond to an active-shooter situation?" Ill answer that by simply saying it sure beats the hell out of herding them into close quarters and being slaughtered alongside of them in a cold blooded manner similiar to which Hitler hered the Jews into in WW2!

Personally I think its time for the NRA and all other firearm activist groups to organize and offer free instruction to teachers and any school employees etc. That should be combined with discounts by firearm manufacturers for them also. I have no doubt the vast majority of firearm owners would agree with this. This should be complimented by government changes in taking these monsters off the streets and given proper treatment or incarceration in special circumstances. Simple useless legislation to prohibit law abiding citizens from enjoying the Constitutional Rights isnt the answer. Its time for the pro gun and anti gun communities to ban together and stop these kind of monsters from attacking inocent people. Period!


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